How to Become a Servant Leader

About The Podcast

This month’s guest is John Shibley, a leadership coach who is spreading the gospel of servant leadership through his podcast, writing, and ministry. Servant leadership means focusing less on one’s own power, influence, and accomplishments and instead prioritizing the growth and well-being of those being led—recognizing that we have just as much a responsibility to serve them as they have to serve us. And that’s not just a positive management technique, Shibley says, it’s walking in the footsteps of Jesus Himself, the greatest servant-leader who ever lived. “Maybe more people are trying to dig in and examine their spiritual side,” he suggests, “and maybe as they dig and understand who Jesus is a little more, they realize, ‘Wow, this was his model 2,000 years ago, what have we been doing this whole time?’”

Show Notes

Mentions:

• Last in Line Leadership Podcast
• YouVersion: creates biblically centered, culturally relevant experiences that encourage and challenge people to seek God throughout each day.
• The Bible App: 100% free Bible App. Access bookmarks, notes, and reading plans from anywhere. Hundreds of version, including audio. Available on iPhone/iPad, Android, Kindle Fire.
• Redeemed Online Small Groups

Welcome and Introduction

Good evening and welcome. I'm Paul Amos, founder of The Redeemed. The Redeemed is an organization, a community that's built together to help men to both their difficulties in life and their triumphs over those difficulties. Today, we're here on The Redeemed Man podcast with a very special guest. Please welcome the leader of Last in Line Leadership that had John Shibley.

John: Good to be here Paul, thanks for having me. Love the work you're doing, man.

Paul: Well, thank you so much, we appreciate you taking time out of your busy and successful schedule is an author and podcast leader. Love to hear about your passion for servant leadership today, but before we jump into that, let's start when we start with all our guests and asking you, What does redemption mean to you?

What does redemption mean to you?

John: Well, over the years of being a follower of Christ, I've thought a lot about that word. I love that word because it's a stamp of approval on me personally and all believers.  And I love that because if you think of redeeming a coupon, something's already been paid for you just go and basically proclaim that you have something to gain access to whatever, everybody knows how coupon works. So that's what I feel like. Jesus, he paid that debit, paid that price. And really, the redemption that I have is born again, my fate is sealed in eternity with Him, and I don't have to earn it.  

That coupon that I'm holding somebody else paid for that for me, and so it's nothing I have to do to gain access to eternity in the vein of salvation and what Christ did for me.

So redemption and redeemed to me means like restored, renewed, purchased at a price, so that I can be forgiven, so that I can be born again, so that I can just be justified,  sanctified, all those words that go with it. So that's in a nutshell, that's kind of what that means.

Paul: I love your coupon analogy, as you said, everybody knows what a coupon is, it's simple, it's easy to convey and it's easy to use, and thank goodness, that's what God's done for us and giving us something that's easy to use, if we're just willing to reach out and ask for it.

About John Shibley

Timestamp: 2:30

Paul: Well, John, if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us a little bit about your background.

John: Yeah, so I live in a little suburb north of Houston, Texas, and grew up in Oklahoma. I did not grow up in church. I grew up as one of those CEOS, the Christmas and Easter only type believers. We always believed, but we just didn't really have that relationship, that way of life, the lifestyle that goes with that. So I went such a different path than following Christ. I went the other way for years. But God has a way of relocating people and put them in a different environment where he can sort of present this in a different way, in a very attractive way, and so my wife and I had kids and wanted to raise them in church differently than how we grew up. Man, next thing you know, you turn around and you're locked into a relationship and loving Jesus and following Jesus and serving and just trying to grow the Kingdom. So that was my faith journey.  In a nutshell I had no idea, I didn't see it coming.

I got relocated to New Orleans with a previous job back in 03, and of all places, to find Christ and to be a follower of Christ in New Orleans, Louisiana. Love those people love that culture, but who would have thought because my past would have said I would have partaken in all that that setting has to offer. And really I went the other direction and really just latched on to a church family, started serving, which we'll get into that more, I'm pretty sure.

But that changed our life, serving in the church body, and really developing that community and having our kids grew up in that environment. I've been in sales my whole life. I've been in leadership in sales, but now I'm doing medical sales, and I've been in different specialty pockets of medical, so I've enjoyed that freedom and flexibility of being in sales, and I've enjoyed it. Everywhere we've gone since 2003, which in Louisiana, and then on moving to Houston, found a church, started serving immediately and just really started latching on to that community. And man, I can't speak highly enough about how that changes your walk with Christ.

Paul: Well, I did a 2 year stint in New Orleans, unfortunately, you took the right path, and I definitely took the more local path.  Two years in my life that definitely were interesting, but I look back on it and you grow from all experiences, the good ones and the bad ones.

Last in Line Leadership

Timestamp: 5:15
Let's talk a minute about service, and New Orleans help prompt you into service, and let's talk about servant leadership and how you grew a passion for that and how you're beginning to build a ministry based on servant leadership.

John: And it's one of those things where I think it kind of gets thrown around a lot, and I don't know if we're always in tune with what that looks like or what that means, even as believers, I think servant doesn't always have the most... I don't know, masculine or the most domineering or victorious sound to it, I guess. I don't know any other way to say that, but man, I always go back to, if we're trying to reflect the nature of Christ, which we always, every day trying to do that.  Falling short, but trying to be as close to that as possible.

He was a servant leader, and I built this podcast and this platform Last in Line out of Mark 9:35, where it says, If you want to be first, you'll be last of all in servant of all. And there's countless other scripture where Jesus is saying like, I didn't come to be served, I came to serve. Early walking in my faith, understanding what that looked like by watching those around me and knowing, Hey, we get connected, the more we serve, the more people we meet, and selfishly, that's why I started serving in church specifically, was to just be able to meet more believers, because I am, let's face that I left a life where I wasn't going to have any friends anymore from that environment, so I was looking for connection and fellowship, and so serving provided that.

The more you serve, just the more fulfilled you get, and the more you feel like you're maturing as a Christian, because it's not about you. And that's what I always come back to is, it's just not about me. And last in line, of course, says all of that. It says, we're trying to equip people to prop others up, and yes, we're the men, the tip of the spirit, a lot of times we're called to be that, but we're also called to build others up around us and allow them to utilize their gifts, walking in those, understand serving as well themselves, and I think that's the best form of leadership is just making others better around you, and then kind of nudging them into their destiny, into their calling and helping along the way, just kind of be there for people. And I think ultimately, that makes us a great leader, so that's kind of where this whole servant leadership came from, and how my platform has evolved.

During COVID, let's face it, we all know we had a lot of alone time, we had a lot of time at home. So I kind of converted that into mornings, going out and really getting back in touch with my devotional time and getting in the word. That's when I just felt like He was telling me... Reading all the devotionals on YouVersion, Bible App doing those things. I thought, Man, I might be able to write some stuff, and so I started doing that and published my first book, which really was a devotional, and then I had some devotionals published, some Bible plans published on YouVersion version. Most recently had my fifth one published.

Writing, I guess has always kind of been a thing, I just never knew what to do with it. And so during COVID, man, God just sort of magnified that calling, in that purpose to have a voice, a positive voice, and so that's how the podcast and the platform was born, is through covid,  truth, and through trying to encourage people.

How to get men motivated to serve

Timestamp: 9:08

Paul: Well, first of all, thank you for what you're doing and the way you're giving back to people through this leadership, it's amazing to see. I think that you're right, that men don't particularly see serving as a form of masculine leadership. Just for a minute here, let's talk about how do we get men motivated to serve, how do we get them over the hump and helping them realize that leading from the behind our last in line in your case, is ultimately the way to lead best.

John: That's a great question. I think culture and society might look a little different if more people bought into that concept, but again, I always take it back to scripture, and I think if men are a Christian men like they say they are, and I'm speaking to Christian men, obviously that's who is a big part of this audience. If we want to do that A, we can do it in a masculine way, we don't have to be soft and vanilla, like I think people were trying to convince us of.

But at the same time, serving, like I said, Jesus did it. If he did it, who are we to not serve? And I think if we're trying to be as close to that bar that's been raised by Him and that's our target, we got to do that as much as possible, we'll never get there, but I think we got to do it as much possible.  I also think guys want to know “What's in it for me?”.   A lot of times I feel like that's what I used to kind of be like, Okay, well, if I do this, is there anything here that I can maybe we can parlay that into something beneficial for me.  

Guys are wired a little bit that way, we all want to win, we're all competitive, so how can I get that next edge? Well, making people better around you... Coaches don't play the game, coaches equip their players to play the game, and then ultimately they all win together, so I think if we're trying to make a dent as men as a whole as a general population of masculine Christian men, if we're going to make a dent in whatever is going on in the world now, which isn't pretty, we've got all come together and we got to get on the same page, seeing from the same hymnal, so to speak, and understand serving people around us makes us better so that they can go do that and equip whatever pocket of the world they're influencing.  If I'm doing that at work, then Joe, who I influence in a good way, or if I serve him, he goes and does that, so then I think there's just a ripple effect to how we move the needle in culture.

Leading From the Sidelines

Timestamp 11:45

Paul: Yeah, I certainly think culture has it backwards. And you're right, men have been told all their lives that winning is the key to being successful, but in reality, when you make a sports analogy, the idea of being a coach, the idea that Jesus led an incredible 12 man team of disciples, and was the ultimate leader in motivating them and teaching them how to do it on their own, really says a lot about the idea of leading from the sideline as opposed to leading from the front and just being a doer.

John: If Jesus is washing people's feet, that to me is the ultimate picture of serving somebody, and I think he was making a statement and being an example for us to follow. I don't think he was just bored on a Sunday because he couldn't get his dish to work for football, I don't think his cable was out. He was trying to make a statement, and I think some of us are getting it later in life than others.

Hindsight is 20/20. Would have loved to have been doing this, talking to you 20 years ago, talking about this, but you know, I think that's what he was doing. He was letting us see examples of what that looked like.  He didn't have to do ministry with those people, he could have done it himself. Equipping people and serving people, I think there's something to it, and I think that's how you make a bigger splash if you're trying to drive this bus in a good direction.

Elements of Servant Leadership

Timestamp: 13:15

Paul: What would you say from a practical standpoint, is the biggest message that you want to communicate about what helps make people servant leaders? In your book, you talk a lot about the elements of servant leadership, and I know there's an opportunity for you to just say, What is it that most resonates and has the biggest impact to men by doing this?

John: So practically, I think guys need something tangible and practical that they can kind of grasp and conceptually, we can all understand something, but that doesn't always translate to execution. I think for guys to really just go out tomorrow, if they're not already, I think maybe guys are doing more of it than they think, and don't really never really gave it a name or a label or really understood what it was, but maybe there's some guys already doing it. But for those that it's kind of a new concept to them.

Like practically, I think it's just thinking about yourself less often, it's not thinking of yourself less. I can't remember who said that. I define humility that way, it might have been Zig Zigler, I can't remember. Somebody said, humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking about yourself and your needs less often. If we can do that, that seems pretty simple. I'm not a calculus major, but that most guys can get a hold of that and say, Okay, if I go out in my day and I'm looking for opportunity, because there are lots of opportunities we pass by and they just kind of blow by us, but if we're looking for opportunity to be a value to somebody, to ask questions, to get empathetic, to stay humble, and God's going to reward that.

We don't have to take care of this on our own, we don't need to go chase our own reward.  I believe God's going to reward those who give it, give and be given to you, He says. Press down shaken together. And that's not just finances, that's blessings, that's peace, that's wisdom, there are so many gifts that He has for us, that if we honor him by honoring his people, I think we're right in line with a blessing to follow and just kind of an overall valuable existence.  But I think we have to shift our mind.

A lot of us, I'll speak for me in the past have and just like we said earlier, I'm going out and just had my own initiatives, my own agendas, I got to get mine type of mentality, but when you shift that focus. We're wired that way. Right, if we're created in the image of God and Jesus did all this stuff and we have it in us, we're wired to do it, it's just a mindset, it's just intentionality, and you got to look for those opportunities.

Servant Leadership at Home

Timestamp: 16:14
Paul: You know, when I think of leadership, it often jumps immediately to the workplace, but home is a place that for you as a father of four and husband and a son, you're exhibiting leadership all the time outside of the office as well. Can you talk for a minute about what you do to really exhibit servant leadership at home?

John: Now this, the part here where I had to really kind of force myself, and it was almost a muscle memory, I had to retrain myself because in the home. This is our domain, we're called to have dominion over it, we're called to lead as spiritual leaders of the house. That's all great, but I think sometimes we get that in a mindset of My way or the highway.  We have this philosophy of because I said so, and there is that discipline, that authority that we do carry.

But I got to tell you man, Sunday afternoons, we have everybody come over, my four kids, my oldest son who's engaged, his fiancé, my mom will come over and we cook every Sunday. We started that, I think this year is when we first started that, and I get the kids involved, but I also have them see me go in when food's done, we're done eating. I go in and I jump at the kitchen sink and I'm the first in line to clean up, I'm the first in line to put the dishes, I don't say, I'm going to go sit down, grab the remote and the women take care of that. No, the kitchen is not where I belong. That is one place I lead from the front.

I think you can maybe do both at the same time, serving by leading from the front and doing that kind of stuff, and that's a little thing, but you'd be surprised how many teachable moments come up when I say, Hey, why am I in here doing the dish. I'll say that to my boys, and so eventually they come and follow suit with me.

You kind of get them involved in the process, but you got to start with yourself and you got to take that first step and just taking your eyes off yourself when you're in the house, and I think if you ask my four kids kind of, what does dad do in the morning at 5:30, when he gets up, aside from going to get in the hottubp first so I can loosen up because I'm 50 and  I hurt every morning. But aside from that, they would say, dad's reading his Bible, that's praying, as they know that that's the first thing I do in the day, is devote and I'm pretty faithful with that, I haven't always been.

And then we pray at night, that's to me, that's leading man, everybody comes in our room, and we corporately as a family pray, and I need to do better at delegating some of that, I get my sons of into them leading the prayer.  No, I think if you would ask who's a spiritual leader of your home to my family members, I think they would say me.

Those are just little things that I do. It doesn't take a whole lot. Guys tend to think it's this lightning bolt, you're staying in the top as a stairs with your staff like Moses, and then you just speak and things to happen. That's not how it works. So doing little things, you're not above anything in that house.  You're not positional leadership versus relational leadership. I try to lead relationally more than positionally, even though sometimes you got to have an iron fist sometimes, but... I think you get what I'm saying.

Timestamp: 20:01

Paul: Absolutely, I think that's a great example you set for your kids to think that they would answer that the first thing you do and the way you start your day outside of the hot tub is prayer and reading, and then to corporately end it at the end of the day with them. That's a huge example of leadership for your kids and you're setting it in all the right ways. I'm sure as you mentioned, you have one now who's off and getting married, they're setting their own families and they're going to begin to set that same example. Hopefully for their own family as they move forward to

I’ve got four kids myself, and my oldest is 20, and my second one is off college as well, and I can think to myself, they are already outside of the nest, and you just hope that all the work you've done and the things that you do have vested in them a sense that God is really at the center of everything that you do, and I certainly have not always live the right life, I've certainly been through my journey, but I hope that now my kids are seeing how to lead things the right way. And it sounds like you're doing all of that.

Application Through Intentionality

Timestamp 21:04

Well, in your book, you talk about at the end of each chapter or application through intentionality, and maybe for our audience, you could just talk a little bit about one principle that you think is critical to implementation for servant leadership, so that they understand how to do that intentionally.

John: It starts with the mindset thing, and you got to want to. You’ve got to buy into this concept that it is actually beneficial for everybody, and like we talk about what's in it for me type thing.  You will actually benefit from being a servant leader, and there's nothing weak about serving, of course.

The application through intentionality, I think, is really what it says, and if we can identify these tangible things throughout our day, again, we got to look for it, but we can create opportunities to serve people. Not just our family, not just at work, like strangers.

I was listening to a podcast today, they were talking today about, you unknowingly entertain angels, and the Bible talks about in Hebrews. We unknowingly, we don't know who is crossing our path, so I think we've got to have more of an open mind.­­ And we got to seek opportunity to serve people now, it doesn't mean you go up to everybody and give them a 20 bill because they look down their luck, that's not what I'm talking about, but I think we can serve just by little things.

My encouragement to guys be, don't try to disqualify yourself because you think these things are too unattainable, these serving tasks are two instrumental, they're too big. You have to do this major monumental thing, and those are great, but look, I coach baseball for a long time, a small ball is where it's not a bunch of home runs, you just manufacture base runners and runs enough to win the game, like you do little things throughout to piece together a win.  I think as people, we can play some small ball and take a lesson from that and do a lot of little things. Because those add up. And so what I wanted to do in that book at the end, the reason I have that section is I want guys to write stuff down too, and I could be better at that, like I'm talking to me on this deal. And I write, but I'm just not a great sit down at the end of the day and document stuff, but I need to be better, but in the application part, we need to maybe write down areas where we think we might be able to serve.

Like tonight, you're going out tomorrow to work, when your day is probably going to look a lot similar to do it how it did today, what are some areas in throughout your day where you might be able to serve somebody?

You might be able to go make the copies instead of telling so and so to do it, or you go pick up the trash on the floor in the break room. These are little things, right? Nobody's going to get a trophy for those, but I'm just saying these are things that somebody's watching, and that would be what I say to guys is someone's always watching, especially Christian guys, they're looking for us to do something wrong or fail in some miserable way, but they're also looking to see, Oh wow, that guy he let that person have the parking place right up by the door when it was pouring outside, because we can get pretty ugly in traffic, at least I can.  So those are little ways to serve and that's what I wanted us to do in the book, is just kind of write down ways that they can be strategic, ways that we can have maybe some tactical approach, and I don't want people to think, Oh well, you got a craft and game the situation and write down a map on how you serve the next day, not always, but until you get to tell it becomes second nature, and we talk about muscle memory, yeah, you might have to write it down. Like, Oh, from 8-9, so and so does this at work, maybe I can go get that for him or take them something, or maybe I could do the spreadsheet or volunteer for a task today, because Joe over here is always doing it and nobody wants to do it, maybe I'll do that. You know, I don't know what that looks like, but there's so many ways to serve people, it just doesn't have to be huge all the time.

Timestamp: 25:39

Paul: I think you're right, sometimes the little things with the little things that are difficult really set an example for other people, when you're getting out there and you're saying, You know what, I'm willing to take on the hard task, I'm willing to do the thing on the day that nobody else wants to do, and I'll do it for you. As a sacrifice of my personal situation, I think that makes a huge impact on people.  I don't think it always has to be the heroic thing. It can sometimes be the mundane, they can truly make a difference in people's lives and what they see in terms of your servant leadership.

John: Oh, and I'll tell you right now, most of the time it's mondan, I would say more times than not. It's the small thing. And back to the home situation, I don't know what your guys are in as far as marriages go, and a lot of people are struggling and people are trying to make his meet and sometimes tensions get a little high in the house, and I'm... Same with us, you know, we're not perfect. But I've been married 27 years and I've done a lot wrong, and I would probably say she's a big reason why we made it this far, that and just the power of the Holy Spirit. But I would encourage guys to just try to outdo... There's a scripture (Romans 12:10), I didn't make this up, that says outdo each other and honor it. So the Bible talks about try to outdo each other in honor, so serving your wife, and not just because she asked you to, but man, very little. Brew her cup of coffee and have it sitting there when she walks into the kitchen that I've done that and that spoke volume to her. Don't wait till she's at the end of a rope before you take the clothes out of the dryer,  go fold the clothes.

Those are the most important places to serve, if you ask me, because then you've got credibility, we all want to leave in the home, we all want to be a spiritual leader, we all want our words to have weight, but man if you're not leading by example, when you're not doing these little things, your family is going to dismiss you.

I promise they're going to kind of nod and glaze over, but then they're going to walk away and think he's not living that, he's talking about it, but he's not being about it. They can spot a fraud from a mile away, and I think other people can't too.  So those are the little thing. I don't even know why through that in there, but just for guys like sort of your life without being asked to or without a reward, without trying to go get sex, so you're going to empty the dishwasher. That's not what we're talking about. So go do it just because, with nothing in return.

Paul: Having an expectation of not getting anything back seems to be a part of this. When you go in with the motive or intent. It seems to be undermined. But when you go in with that honest, just doing it for the good of doing it, it tends to have a whole different, not only reaction based on what you're doing, but on the person that is receiving the gift of that service,

John: 100%.

Timestamp 28:44

Paul: Well, so you are faced every day with men and what's going on in their lives.  So I'd love to get your perspective on what do you kind of see is one of the biggest challenges that men are facing today, and how are you trying to help them handle it?

John: Thankfully, my podcast incorporates a lot of interviews like yours, and thank goodness for heroes that I bring on, that I consider heroes, people who have overcome so much, people who are living this servant leadership, they're out there doing it. So I hope people are learning from those guys, because it's really not about me or anything I'm doing, but I see what guys are going through.

I think we're at a crossroads a little bit to. We all know where we need to kind of step in and make a difference, we all know what's wrong in the world. We all can look around and see how toxic everything is, but we can all look around and go, Man, this is going south in a hurry. So I guess what I hope from guys is that they would A: press in further go to another level, double down with God in your prayer time and word time, get as much words and as you can and get the armor of God on. Get the power of the Holy Spirit. I think that sets us up for, ‘Hey, okay, we got courage. Now we can step out in a situation where we might need to lead in an uncomfortable situation, we might need to have a hard conversation with a co-worker.’

I think what I want from guys, and I know guys all have this, they all have the potential, we're all wired to do this. Just step out, unlock some of the courage and go into these situations that might not always be pretty, or go into the situations that may be un-chartered territory for you, something that you've never done, and it makes a positive impact.

So guys to need to take back what I think society is trying to take in the form of, of course, masculinity and how's defined, our leadership in the home, our leadership in the church. We need to step back into this mantle that we've been given of masculine biblical leadership. I know guys are wanting to. I know we want to do it. I know we're equipped to do it, but man, get God involved, invite Him  into every situation and then look for that guidance and then be obedient walking back. So I think if enough of us do that, it doesn't require a PhD, it doesn't require a degree in theology, doesn't require a million dollars in the bank.

We've got to do better at getting other guys around us. And I’m front of the class on that one, so I could be better at that, but we all to get those two or three guys that we can count on that we trust, that we can call, that we can help serve them just like they do us, and then kind of build that band of brothers.

Last in Line Leadership Podcast

Paul: I couldn't agree with you more. We just launched small groups here at The Redeemed, trying to help men and get into a deep sense of community with each other because we know how important it is to have brothers in arms with you. Iron sharpens iron, and I truly believe that men having the opportunity to be with other men sets them off in a different place. So, I honestly will say that what you're doing on your podcast is an inspiration.  So maybe you could for our listeners just tell us a little bit about the podcast and how they can get access to it, so that they can listen to him and hear what you're doing.

John: Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Well, I have to give credit to my buddy at church, we co-taught some classes, some men's classes together, but during summer of 2020, when COVID was right in, we were right in the teeth of COVID and he's written a couple of books. And he had a podcast and YouTube channel. And so he was telling me, you know how you got a book. He was telling him I was writing some stuff and he was like, You got a book, just put it together and he showed me how to self-publish on Amazon. Then he said I think you should do a YouTube channel. I'm like, I don't think so. And I've been in sales, I'm not scared of talking for our people, but I was like, I have no clue what that is. How that works? He's like, Just do it. And he's like, You might fail, but just do it anyway and just go forward, man, you'll figure it out. So I did, and I started the YouTube channel and started bringing on some guests and a podcast on Apple, on Spotify, and so it's still growing, it's not like this major, huge platform with millions of followers and downloads, but I've had a lot of success. It's been because God's open doors to meet new people, and then that goes to the word gets out. And you know how it works. And he told me, my buddy told me, you'll be surprised. People are going to come to you that you had no idea were coming. The word will get out. And you will get people and stand back and go Wow, how did this happen? And so it has, it's been that.

And the guests, I've had former Navy Seals, I've never spoken to a Navy SEAL in my entire life until this podcast, and those guys, I just have so much admiration for spec ops community in general. Military veterans in general. So I've had a lot of those professional athletes who would have thought I would have a professional athlete, an ex-NFL... Kurt Cousins from the Minnesota Vikings came on my podcast last year, I was like, What is happening? So I knew God was all over this. So yeah, it's been hearing the stories, I've had people on that have just had suffered significant loss, children, spouses, different siblings, just losing them dying, and they've overcome by the power of God and by them leaning into their faith, and I just sit back in awe of these people. So I've been blessed to be able to share their story, and all I'm doing is facilitating conversation, man.

They're doing all the heavy lifting. They're equipping the audience their obeying the Holy Spirit and what they share, and God's doing the rest man. So I hope it continues to grow. If it doesn't, if I never make a dime from it, which I don't... I have a day job. I think I would be just as happy never making a dime, even though it'd be nice if I could do this for a living, but I will tell you, I've been probably the biggest recipient of all this, more than anybody.

Paul: Isn't that how it always is, you go out to give and you end up receiving greater than you ever felt you gave.

John: That's right. That's what's happening, man. These people, I'm just, I'm blown away by some of the people that are out there in the world. These people are out doing it, they're making a difference, and there's so many more that I don't even know about. I'm just going to keep my head down, keep growing and keep being obedient, and as I feel God leading me to keep doing this like he'll keep bringing guest, man. And we'll keep sharing it and I think men, just like with people who listen here is I think men are going to step up and start realizing, We can't do this, we can't make a difference. Those people are doing it, I can do it. And so I think there's only good to come from what we're doing.

Thanks and Closing Remarks

Paul: Well, John, thank you taking time out of your busy schedule to come and join The Redeemed Man podcast tonight. We certainly feel like we've been blessed with what you're doing, and thank you so much for helping get servant leadership into the forefront of how men should be thinking.

Men, check out his Last in Line Leadership podcast. He's given you the different modes and places that you can go and check it out from a Redeemed perspective, please check out and follow us on social media as well as look us up for our newsletter list, we have all types of information about groups and things that we'll be doing.

Of course, we'll be launching another podcast third Thursday of next month. We thank you for your time and we wish you all the best. God bless and Godspeed